Understanding usage of AI products vs. adjustments

(HarriettEl) #1

I’ve happily used Detail 3 and DeNoise 6 as plug-ins for Photoshop for a long time. They are quick and easy to use as a smart filter. I know I can also use Precision Detail as an adjustment in Studio, but I don’t use Studio as a plug-in very much because of the load time. I’m very impressed with Jpeg to Raw and AI Gigapixel. They are great for Standalone usage. I have also used Sharpen AI but still use Detail for specific areas. Now that DeNoise AI is out it appears that Sharpen AI and DeNoise AI are best for global sharpening of pictures that might be soft from enlarging or a little blur and decreasing noise for pictures that were taken with a high ISO setting, respectively. I have tested this with a large variety of pictures. I think Sharpen AI works better than DeNoise AI for the respective purposes, but both products do not do well with pictures that were taken with a beginner digital camera, old pictures, a lot of color noise or early cell phone pictures, for example.Am I understanding this correctly as far as global usage products vs. adjustments? This was a bit confusing at first because DeNoise and DeNoise AI have the same name so I assumed they would work in the same way. I do not have the Pro Adjustment called Reduce Noise that seems to be the equivalent to DeNoise 6. I’m afraid I might have to purchase Reduce Noise if somehow DeNoise 6 (along with Detail 3) are killed somehow. This wouldn’t be a disaster if Studio would load faster.

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(Don) #2

Reduce Noise is not the equivalent of DeNoise 6, Denoise AI is the natural progression to AI.

DeNoise 6 and Detail 3 are still available for download for owners from the Downloads, Legacy option from the main menu. But will no longer be updated or supported.

DeNoise AI can be used as a plugin from Studio, Photoshop, Affinity Photo etc., etc.

(fvanderb) #3

Since this topic is about AI products, I have to mention that I can not find AI Clear listed for purchase on the Topazlabs product listing. What happened to it? Sharpen AI and DeNoise AI get released and AI Clear is removed. Is it because Sharpen and DeNoise were the components of AI Clear?

(Don) #4

No it is probably because DeNoise AI has all the functionality of AI Clear and more. As this is a user to user forum anything that is said would be speculation … you can Open a Request at the main support website and choose Purchasing and Trial Help.

(Rondo249) #5

Well there are several types of AI. But to my understanding the software is based on machine learning, but I don’t know if this is the case for Topaz AI products- no one from Topaz has really explained it well.
Nevertheless, the adjustments that were possible manually in lets say Denoise 6 are now mostly done by the AI in AI Denoise, leaving only three mild adjustments.
I prefer the adjustments in Denoise 6, especially for Color Noise, although AI Denoise may have some uses for me- I’m still undecided.

(Don) #6

It’s all about a comfort zone …

I’m not sure what your getting at because most people prefer to use what they are comfortable with … I remember that I used to use another product from Picture Code before I moved to DeNoise and now I just like the ease of DeNoise AI … have a look at this article for the basis:

https://topazlabs.com/the-story-behind-denoise-ai/

And note all AI is about machine learning … :slight_smile:

1 Like
(fvanderb) #8

Thank you Don, I’ll take your suggestion and find out if AI Clear is still available for sale.

(fvanderb) #9

Reply from Topazlabs support regarding AI Clear:

Thank you for contacting Topaz Labs Support.

Glad to hear you are enjoying DeNoise AI. We are no longer selling AI Clear as it’s been replaced by DeNoise AI.

(Artisan-West) #10

Well thats a shame. while Denoise AI is faster than AI Clear, I can show that AI Clear is superior and it also works in Topaz Studio along with other adjustments. I hope it will keep working as I have it. Of course Denoise AI may improve over time.

(Don) #12

Note that also means you are entitled to the free upgrade, just download and install Sharpen AI.

(fvanderb) #13

Yup, got it, thank you.

(gregs4163) #14

Sharpen A.I. Also? or just DeNoise A.I.? as a free upgrade.

(Don) #15

Only DeNoise, Sharpen AI comes with a copy of InFocus or $20 off if you have the Sharpen Adjustment.

(PFloyd) #16

Any word on whether AI Clear will be removed from Studio’s Adjustments menu at some point, or if it will remain as an adjustment for those of us who own it? And if the latter, then why not just give DeNoise AI owners the AI Clear adjustment for free (the inverse of what they already just did)?

(Artisan-West) #17

I will be upset if AI clear is removed, it is superior to Denoise AI and I like it as an adjustment.

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(PFloyd) #18

I will be upset if AI clear is removed, it is superior to Denoise AI and I like it as an adjustment.

Agreed. I had just bought AI Clear the night before DeNoise AI was released, and I’m really blown away by it. It’s much more convenient and faster to run directly from Studio than loading DeNoise AI. I would be angry if it went away too.

I’m rather new to Topaz, but I am blown away by their technology and many of their products are unmatched IMO … However, their product line is an absolute convoluted and confusing mess, and it seems to have only gotten worse.

When I first discovered Topaz, there was Studio adjustments and plugins, which was already confusing enough. But I finally figured it out all the differences (mostly), and was told that eventually everything would be run from Studio, including the plugins once they were ported as Studio pro adjustments; making it a centralized, consistent editing platform.

But since then, I don’t believe any plugins have been replaced with pro adjustments; however, they’ve released 4 new standalone programs. I’ll give Gigapixel AI and JPEG to RAW AI a pass, as those are truly unique and justify a standalone program. But Sharpen AI and DeNoise AI, as good as they may be, being standalone programs just adds to the confusing mess. We now have NINE tools (10 if you count Topaz DeNoise) for sharpening, de-noising, and contrast in the form of pro adjustments, plugins, and standalone programs, and it’s now even more confusing trying to discern the differences between these products:

  • AI Clear (recent and very popular adjustment; still part of Studio yet unable to buy as of 3-4 days ago)
  • Sharpen
  • Reduce Noise
  • Detail In Studio
  • Clarity In Studio
  • Sharpen AI
  • DeNoise AI
  • Topaz Adjust
  • Topaz Clean
  • Topaz DeNoise (deprecated, replaced with DeNoise AI)

I wish Topaz would let us know clearly what is going on with all of these products, what each product’s function/purpose us, what the differences are, and which products overlap. But they don’t - lately they just seem to add to the confusion with each new product release. The deprecation of AI Clear would be a huge blunder and a travesty IMO; I really hope they re-think that strategy!

3 Likes
(Karl Krueger) #19

I am also rather new to Topaz. I started using some of their programs at the start of this year. I was attracted by the use of AI. I see it as a superior way to clean up images over the various algorithms that exist now which introduce artifacts the more you move that slider over. I get the impression Topaz is a company in transition and their lead in AI technology is why we are seeing what appears to be a changing face in their software.

Read this blog article and it may give you a glimpse as to what is happening inside Topaz and how they are thinking;
https://topazlabs.com/the-story-behind-denoise-ai/

I liked AI Clear and it quickly became my first step in post processing. But something happened to my computer - I’m not sure what (an update on Dell drivers seemed to coincide with this) - but all of a sudden I could not save files in Studio. That meant AI Clear was of no benefit to me. But after less than two weeks in this state Topaz came out with Denoise AI which I can use and call for inside LR/PS. As described in the article Denoise AI can be more robust as it does not have limitations posed by Studio. In my hands, I’m finding as good of results with Denoise as I had with AI Clear but a little more adjustments on your part are needed to select the right settings.

After seeing Sharpen AI come out and now Denoise AI I think I see the direction Topaz is heading. I’m just learning to adapt to these changes but in the process I have been able to “fix” many problematic photos. Where as before those who work with LR/PS recommended that noise reduction/sharpening is the last thing to do, Topaz reversed this scheme for me where Denoise and then Sharpen are the first things I do and then after that any other adjustment is minor and sure not to introduce artifacts that Denoise eliminated.

In summary it seems we are in a phase of transition here and I think Topaz is trying to determine what is the best way to manage this but at the same time give us the best products their machine learning can produce. This may change the way we are used to doing things.

I would welcome someone from Topaz to comment if this is reasonably accurate.

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(PFloyd) #20

Thanks for that - very interested in reading it … however, the link is not working for me (I’m getting a “Bad Gateway” error). Hopefully it’s just temporary.

(Karl Krueger) #21

Hmmm, the link works for me. You can get there by going to the main menu on topazlabs.com and selecting Support>Blog.

(PFloyd) #22

Thanks, seems to be working now.