Ongoing product value and paid upgrades

General Discussion
601

Eric, with all this going on, I decided to followup on a ticket I opened last year that was escalated to engineering and about which I had received no update. For context, I was trying to do something in Studio 2 that I had successfully done in standalone and Studio Classic. Here is the response I received:

"After looking into this issue some more we can confirm that this feature is completely broken.
Unfortunately the developer that wrote it is no longer here, so it will be a long time before this feature is fix.

We are very sorry for this issue.

You can however open Studio 1 and Studio 2 at the same time, and you can manually recreate your presets by opening it in Studio 1, and copying over the slider values and recreating the preset in Studio 2.

Since Studio 1 is no longer supported, it is quite likely that we will never fix this bug. We’re very sorry."

The net here is that

  1. You should cut those of us who have been loyal customers some kind of break. This is what other companies have done - I squawked to a competitive photo company when I was asked to pay for an upgrade when their product did not provide an advertised feature that critical to my work flow. I was asked to contact the president directly and was offered the next major release for free - which worked for me. I am now a loyal customer and am happy to purchase ongoing releases that add value to me.

  2. Release products that are WORK AND ARE COMPLETE - at least don’t leave out features that used to work fine before. Releasing crap wastes our time and energy. I realize that software has bugs, and bugs take time to fix - I have been in the industry for years.

Respectfully frustrated,

Steve

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602

I’m bothered by how poorly loyal customers are being treated. A brand new Topaz AI buyer gets a year of support. Long-time Topaz customers are “graciously” given a 6-month extension… with the casual mention that it could’ve ended immediately. Twelve months (or more) of support to existing customers would have shown better faith.

In terms of what our money buys, there are no specifics. There’s no talk of hiring more QA staff, expanding testing/beta programs, greater transparency, etc. Just “deep focus” and “massive value”.

I also believe that $99/year is significantly overpriced, compared to the Photoshop/Lightroom subscription.

(Regarding the overall situation… “The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.”)

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603

I’m one of the original customers that started with Topaz Labs 11 years ago and have purchased everything from them except for the recent video software. Though I love Topaz products and use them, I’ve been disappointed by their more recent trend, so I’m not terribly surprised by this change in policy. For a couple of years now I’ve realized that customer loyalty isn’t valued any more by Topaz Labs. And even though the lifetime upgrade policy has been in place until recently, it really hasn’t meant much lately, so nothing really lost. The original plugins are now legacy “classic” and not supported any more, so their lifetime is done. Plugins have migrated to Studio 1 and then Studio 2 effects, but if anything, that has only made things more cumbersome, inconsistent, and incomplete. Both were released before ready-for-primetime. Studio 1 replaced photoFXlab and though added capability, left out other capability that photoFXlab had. Studio 2 omits capability that both photoFXlab and Studio 1 have. I changed my workflow to Studio 1 thinking that’s the future of Topaz. Wrong. Studio 2 came out, but between bugs and promised capability that still hasn’t been provided, I’m still using Studio 1. Studio 1 isn’t supported anymore, so no lifetime upgrades for that either. My hope has been that with free lifetime upgrades, Studio 2 will eventually become a usable, robust, and complete application, as promised, and as it should be. Considering this announcement and recent history, I’m not holding my breath.

Eric says, “All I ask of you is that you give us a chance to prove this through our product improvements in 2020 and beyond.” I feel like that’s all I’ve been doing for the last couple of years; that is, giving Topaz Labs a chance to prove themselves. How many chances do they deserve? When will Topaz Labs provide complete, robust, end-to-end usable software packages to be proud of? I just migrated to a new computer and was dismayed that Topaz Labs doesn’t provide any way to migrate custom presets/effects, settings, etc. from one computer to another. Their technical support was not helpful. I basically had to reverse engineer their installation to be able to figure out where my custom presets/effects were on my old computer to be able to move them to my new computer. The main reason for a new computer was to be able to get more responsiveness from my Topaz Labs products, but Topaz doesn’t even support moving to a new computer. In addition, I still use photoFXlab on occasion for things that I can’t do with Studio 1 or 2, but it isn’t available with their legacy software, so Topaz doesn’t support reinstalling it. To me, obviously things haven’t been going well with Topaz recently, so something must change for them to improve and have satisfied customers. Overpromising and underdelivering as has been happening isn’t the way, but what’s best isn’t obvious to me.

I’ve loved using Topaz products since the beginning. I’m still hopeful that they pull this off and I’m rooting for their success. Forbes says, “Acquiring New Customers Is Important, But Retaining Them Accelerates Profitable Growth.” My fear is that Topaz Labs has alienated their loyal customer base and ruined their reputation, which will compromise attracting new customers. Time will tell. One prediction I saw on a different discussion forum is that Topaz Labs will be out of business in 18 months. I hope not, but I wouldn’t be surprised. It sounds like we have until August of 2020 to see if their new policy makes a positive difference and is successful. I’ll know for sure if Studio 2 ever becomes a usable, robust, and complete product. Trust is a fragile thing and difficult to regain when lost. In the meantime, I’ll continue working around the shortcomings of Studio 1, but no longer follow Topaz Labs blindly, especially if it’s over a cliff. I’ve been a loyal Topaz fan and resisted looking at the viability of other similar products in the marketplace, but no more. I’ll be surveying other products and may move over or not if Topaz Labs proves to be successful and seems better. I’ll be closely watching to see what happens and decide.

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604

Well, Mr. Yang, CEO. I guess that you have now heard from your customers. Most are loyal long-term Topaz supporters who feel betrayed and disappointed. Not sure who advised you about amount to charge for what you used to provide for free, but $99/year is simply not a reasonable amount. You seem to forget that a lot of your company’s success is based on your previous policy of free upgrades/upgrades for life. You are now charging almost the same as Adobe for Lightroom, Lightroom Classic and Photoshop and, while your products are excellent, they are much more specialized and limited in functionality when compared to Adobe and your other competitors. I suggest that you carefully reconsider your current position and adjust your position accordingly. Perhaps you should listen to your customers rather than simply taking an autocratic position.

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605

I am very disappointed with this decision. I own all the products and purchased them under the condition of free upgrades. I will not purchase the upgrades or any new software that comes out. The decision to charge for upgrades for new software is ok and, I have the choice to purchase it or not. But to charge existing customers is totally wrong. I probably would not have bought the software! The Topaz software is a nice addition to have and use on occasion, but it is definitely not a must. :-1:

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606

A yearly subscription that would cover ALL of the customers product could work but the cost is the issue. Yes I do feel like I’m on the short end of a bait and switch but if it was less the $50 for ALL the products that might be acceptable to those you bought your product with the understanding that it was FREE LIFE-TIME UPGRADES. You then can charge NEW customers a higher rate possibly making both sides “happy”

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607

Bugs always bother me. I’ve risen from the coding ranks through to senior management (along with the joys of photography…). Paying money every year for new bugs is an issue. Every program I’ve ever written came with zero bugs. Disciplined standards, peer review and thorough design effort up front matters. In the past, I’ve delivered entire systems bug free. I wonder what design standards Topaz and other software development oriented companies use.

Whenever I have software independent design discussions, it seems to be a language no longer spoken or understood.

The annual subscription means I will forever need to rent/pay for Topaz products. I am now reconsidering my approach and tools. Welcome to the Photoshop annuity model. Makes bean counters drool but the marketplace shudders.

I dislike non-photographer bean counters making bad decisions for a business they don’t seem to understand.

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608

I am on board with this. This should be illegal to have people purchase software under false pretenses. I wonder how many people would not have purchased anything. The worse thing is that the AI programs are buggy and we have to pay for them fixing the software as upgrades. Since the first release, there are no new features only bugfixes!!! They will be out of business with this change. It is just a matter of time.

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609

On a regular basic I have reload you product because it seem to fails for no good reason but reloading works. If my version of the software is not up to date what happen in you new system?

610

It shows very poor coding standards - reying on the original coder. Excellence in coding standards & governance seems lacking.

It should be a simple thing for any programmer to pick up and fix. You can write one line of unmaintainable C code do do very complex stuff the coder should be proud of. This is wrong.

Design and coding standards is a must. Otherwise its too expensive to maintain.

How is that the users of the products problem. We now pay for the software then the fixes?

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611

PS - Eric, I feel for you, I really do. Nobody can appreciate the challenges and stress of running a small software company. Been there, done that. But, you’ve got to treat your customers right.

It really feels like you guys might be “one foot on the banana peel”. If that it is the case, please find a good home for your technology. You do a lot of cool stuff that is unique and deserves to live on.

Good luck.

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612

Well said, particularly point 2! Like others, I’ve no intention of funding bug fixes on inadeqately tested software.

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613

Even though I see your point and a lot of companies seem to be going this way. I won’t be able to do the upgrades I’m on a budget just lost my job and I can’t afford any more expenses.
I enjoy using your product thanks you for letting us continue to use the older versions.
Maybe when things get better I’ll do an upgrade.

614

I just brought your products about two months ago and the biggest selling point was that I would only have to pay once. Are you going to offer me the option of a refund? I feel like I’ve been fooled. Some of the old timers at least got years of upgrades.

I am not a professional that uses your software to make money. If I have to pay $99/yr, there are many other pieces of software I would rather purchase or subscribe to.

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615

As disappointing as it is, the new model is no different than most of the software that I’ve been buying since the 1980’s. You own the software, get free upgrades for a period of time and then pay for a new version. It’s not subscription based so the software is useable as long as your equipment supports it. You’re able to download the retired file indefinitely which is more than most other companies practice.

Eric claims that the offer of free upgrades has not been advertised during 2019 which applies to most of the AI apps. I tend to think that most of us assumed that their old policy still applied so unless someone asked the question of Topaz sales/support and got a written assurance, not much of a leg to stand on. It’s extremely doubtful that Eric’s offer of a refund is applicable to older purchases as some seem to think but it might apply to more current AI ones even though the normal deadline is past, common sense. It would be cutting off a nose for spite to lose some of the best apps out there if they work for you.

Comparing to On1Raw 2020 - a pretty complete and robust editor, their price structure for a full first time purchase is currently $80 (usually $100). There are several brand new interesting capability concepts they plan to release during 2020, but so far they are not able to be used as a plug-in which is important to me. Topaz has a way to go to reach a similar level on what they do offer… Forever free upgrades was a great idea but unrealistic. I’m willing to wait and see using what I do own to see what they come up with when its time to upgrade.

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616

Something that is being overlooked perhaps is that the CEO of a Company probably gets a bonus for any increase in profits.
Eric announces this change as though it is a great thing for all of us loyal (at the moment) Topaz customers.
It would be good if he would disclose what advantage this new profit driven change will make to him personally?
I would not be surprised to see that Eric will benefit financially himself.
Many years ago I bought a new HP printer. Hooked it all up, and it went through the initial setup routine.
Then it told me ‘Out of Ink’. Yes, a new CEO had decided that HP would make more profit by supplying a new printer with just enough ink to actually setup only…then you had to buy a new (but full capacity) ink cartridge. I have never and will never buy any HP product again.
Likewise with Topaz…I feel betrayed and have sent in a request for a full refund of the many dollars I have spent with them.

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617

I am disappointed. The reason I purchased the Bundle was the life time free upgrades and to change the term after the purchase sounds like a deceptive trades practice. I can use other programs and do a lot of the same things. Customers that have previously purchased should be grandfathered!

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618

I’ve ha d this product from the get go with life of free upgrades. Ai came along I’m sorry sir but you now have to buy into AI (With free upgrades forever) even if you owned de-noise or sharpen because we are no longer are upgrading the older versions. NOW… OOOOPS WE"RE REALLY SORRY…OUR FAULT…OUR BAD…We’re asking for forgiveness and reaching into you pocket if you want to stay friends. AND… we promise never to Yada yada yada…

How bout that, you have finally reached the plato of nickel and dimming or should we call it just plain dollar grabbing and managed to piss off many many paid for life Subscribers.

I’m just so pissed that nowadays promises just docent mean a thing anymore. That’s just too bad. Life will go on.

Good luck …Mr…Yan!!

619

A very bold statement. I assume this was more than than “hello world”.

If 100% bug-free were the common case with large, complex applications (it’s not) there wouldn’t be a change-log for every release (of anything) indicating what things have been fixed. Zero is not realistic.

But, there are minor bugs and then there are too many major bugs. One week of beta testing is not really enough, but the financial pressures to dev/release are always enormous for a small company. It seems obvious that the free-upgrade policy has contributed to the churn of overlapping new apps and the abandonment of the old ones.

You main point, however, is taken in that the bar for testing, in this case, could be moved higher.

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620

I suppose the means no new upgrades until August 2020?

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