Upscaling old DVDs to 4K (SciFi & Star Trek)

The idea of using VEAi came to me when i found DS9 upscaled to 4k on the usenet.

All fan attemps to get paramount release those series like TNG on BluRay /FHD failed.
Fans started their own upscaling project. In the beginning when i started using VEAI and bought my RTX3090 (dec2020) i tried to get my ds9 upscales “close” them just using VEAI.
But i failed and i was not willing to block my gpu for month with this.

well, i was at least a little successfull and the results have been very “watchable” in 1080p compared to the very bad dvd quality from a 2021 view.

We all know, a dvd sd source will never look like a 35mm source in 4K.
No matter what you do.
Maybe with VEAI V23 and artemis V67… in 2035 we will have this … who knows :wink:

The interested fan/user can find ds9 s01-s06 and voyager s01-s03 (work is ongoing)
ready made in perfect 4k (~12gb each episode) if you have access to the usenet.
But this has legal issues if you dont own the original dvds like i do.

But be warned, even this profi like upscales still suffer from strange leather like skins, especially on Odo’s face. And computer panels sometimes look strange … but i enjoyed watching every episode in 4K again.

So before you invent the wheel again and again and spend hundreds of hours rendering,
try to get a hand on it. (english and german afaik)

P.S. i have no sources, so dont ask. Thanks and kind regards

This is kind of the point, and the focus of much of the discussion here. There’s not just one right answer to doing these upscales.

I saw some of the upscales distributed in the past. I thought the looked really bad compared to what I did myself. This may have less to do with what version of VEAI they used, and more to do with what recipe they used before they got to VEAI. I’m not sure. I just know I’ve been able to get results with my own processes that I like a lot more than what I can get anywhere else.

So if I don’t like what someone else did, then I’m not “reinventing the wheel”, I’m building a better mousetrap.

I also think for a lot of us, this is a hobby, and a labor of love. Personally, I get enjoyment out of this beyond just the result, and have learned a lot along the way. Sure, if they put out an official blu-ray I’d buy that in a second :wink: but in the meantime it is fun and rewarding to see how much water I can squeeze out of a rock.

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yep, i fully agree.
There cant be a “one for all” way or workflow coz this is a question of taste, said the ape and bit the soap …

Some (like me) love it soft or even ultrasoft with not the smallest bit of “disgusting” filmgrain, the next wants it ultrasharp and lots of grain for free…

So was i very happy when Babylon5 was released in HD some month ago…
well, yes its kinda HD, somehow, but the filmgrain was a p… in the a… absolutely unwatchable.
Like its raining all day on the station …

So i took it and cleaned it and now its fantastic HD . But thats my personal preference.

And while i tested and rendered for month now on this old sd and new “pseudo” HD releases, i have the experience to get almost every footage to my gusto. even 320x240 upscaled to 4k …

The magic word is … steps … dont upscale from 320x240 right to 4k …
do it in 3 or 4 steps with different models and you will be amazed of the results…
like 320x240 to 720x480 with gaia5
720 to 1280 with dehalo2
1280 to 1920 with gaia5 again
and so on …

i play around with the bitrate, since gaia is very sensitive to it.
I even reduce the bitrate of some 720p footage down, so gaia has “more” to work on … to get it more crispy (low resolution with “too high” bitrates prevent gaia5 to get it sharp)

and of cource its not just VEAI …
at a certain point you start with pre and post rendering work like cutting and color correcting…

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The magic word is … steps … dont upscale from 320x240 right to 4k …
do it in 3 or 4 steps with different models and you will be amazed of the results…
like 320x240 to 720x480 with gaia5
720 to 1280 with dehalo2
1280 to 1920 with gaia5 again
and so on …

To me, this just results in tons of artifacts. I think it looks better to me with just as little processing as possible to remove problems with the source, plus one pass through the best AI model to get to the target resolution. Each time you make another pass, with anything, you’re losing information.

Personally, I don’t see the point in going beyond 1080p. It just takes tons of hard disk space and doesn’t add anything. The source of a 4:3 DVD is 540x480. At 1080p, which is vastly more information, it’s already an approximation, and is far inferior to what a true 1080p source would look like (like STTNG). What do you get by increasing the resolution further? You already aren’t even close to using the depth of detail available at 1080p - you’re just giving yourself more pixels to make stuff up with that wasn’t there in the first place.

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That’s the basic idea behind my showcase here.

It’s not to show off a “perfect solution”, but rather one possibility of doing things. I think we can all learn from each other, that’s why I am sharing this. I don’t care for people “throwing things out there” and then claiming it’s the best that’s ever been done and not even discussing how it was done.

I think fandom and all of us doing this as a hobby can only live through sharing.

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I tried what you say in the beginning. But soon i realized i was wrong and found my workflow as described. And there is NO one perfect workflow for all and any footage.

You have to test and compare every model on the footage escpecially when it is very low res. One model results in heavy artefats like gaia, in this case i start with dehalo and then gaia. Thats the best way to get rid of those artefacts.
In the beginning i started preprocessing with adobe premiere but that made the footage even worse and it did not use my rtx3090 at all. So it was very slow and delivered bad results.
I am now using davinci resolve and its really fast and delivers much better results.
Running just one final model on preprocessed footage may be ok for 1080p footage
but not for sd footage imho.

When it comes to resolution, i agree if you watch all and everything on a 24" oder even 32" pc monitor or tv. But thats not true for all users.

I watch everything on an 82" QLED 4k Samsung from a keyboard distance of 2m/6ft.
This is my PC screen also. As i dont even have a “normal” monitor anymore. On a moveable tv rack on wheels. Thats what i call homecinema and a great pc desktop screen. Always connected to my workstation with the rtx3090.

And believe me here you can see the difference between 1080p and 2160p/4K very well.

Hello there community.

I haven’t been around much, but now I am back and I wanted to talk about two things.

First: DS9-related.
I re-watched my version of the pilot and realized that there is some oversharpening happening and the motion flow isn’t as nice as I had hoped, so I adjusted a few parameters and re-did the pilot. It is not quite finished yet, but I will post results as soon as I have them.

Second: Babylon 5-related
Since B5 is also a SciFi series I like and a friend proposed an idea to me (he can’t realize it for he does not have the technical capabilities) , I wanted to share what I dabbled with there.
Those of you who know B5 know that the DVD release has a lot of problems (not unlike Star Trek DS9 and Voyager).
For those of you who don’t know, here it is in a nutshell: The series relied on cgi/vfx only for space elements and effect shots (even in live action composites with cgi/vfx). Since they did not have a lot of cash to spend, it doesn’t exactly look “state of the art”. Furthermore, the live action shots were originally done in 16:9 but cropped to 4:3 for the tv broadcasts. While the DVD does have the 16:9 live action format (which is grainy, but still better than Trek Shows of that time), the cgi/vfx was actually zoomed in and cropped on top and bottom to allow for those shots to fill the 16:9 frame, which looks awful, especially in composite shots with actors. Just think: Have you ever watched a low res images with 1995 vfx graphics zoomed in by a factor of about 30% on a 4K OLED - it’s bbbaaaddd …
But just recently, HBO Max and Amazon released a 1080 remaster of that show, with original 4:3 aspect rattio, which is beautiful for the cgi/vfx, but does not allow for the 16:9 live action.
And once you have seen the 16:9, you can’t go back to 4:3 (at least I can’t).

While we were a “little” drunk and watching one of the remastered B5s, my friend sort of blurted out “Why can’t just someone cut that stuff up, use the 16:9 DVD live action with the remastered 4:3 cgi/vfx from the 1080p version and slap that together?”. I responded by saying “That would look crappy, switching between 16:9 and 4:3, especially during composites”.
He then just nodded and said “well then, just stretch the cgi/vfx without cropping - might not be perfect, but better than the s***y DVD-crap”.

The next morning I did not remember much except that little conversation. So I went to work on the pilot episode “Midnight on the Firing Line” and what can I say? It is an insane amount of work, BUT IT DOES WORK!
I could even sync the audio. I did several scenes, all good (unless you see a planet, that looks a little more like an egg with the stretch without crop, but the rest is tolerable). I am crazy enough to try the whole pilot episode.
Would you guys be interested in seeing the results compared to the DVD?
Let me know.

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Ok guys, I told you before that I wanted to share a little something about Babylon 5, here are the results.

The comparison images follow this path:
On the left side: Original DVD-Image at SD-Resolution with the 16:9 Live Action footage but the 4:3 cropped and zoomed in CGI/VFX effects
The lower middle: The 4:3 Live Action footage from the 1080p-Remaster version
The right side: My 4K Upscale, which is basically a “fusion” of the 16:9 Live Action from the DVD (upscaled) and the 4:3 CGI/VFX effects from the 1080p-Remasters (upscaled as well as stretched but not cropped to fill the 16:9 aspect ratio).

My goal here was to create a version I would want to watch, which includes to best quality of both Live Action and Effect Shots.

You will notice that the DVD has the advantage of having more image information on the left/right sides and a “present day-ratio” of 16:9, but is a bad case when it comes to the crappily distorted effect shots (which have lost visual information on top and bottom).
The Remastered Version has the advantage of a very crisp image and the original effect shots in correct dimensions, but it has lost live action visual information on the left/right sides. Also, they did some color regrading that I am not overly happy with as well as cranked up the grain which - for my taste - is too much.

Now I realize a stretched version on the effects is not for everyone, but I thought it would be a compromise worth watching, so here it is.

The following link contains the comparison images (password is “B5Up”, without quotation marks):

The following link contains the 4K video sample, which is the opening act of the pilot “Midnight on the Firing Line”, which lasts about 3 minutes and has a nice mix of live action and effects - password is “B5Up” (without quotation marks):

Have fun.

Ok guys, did a little re-tooling of my project (including better settings and all), so I thought I would let you in on them.
All following things are mainly related to my work on the pilot episode of Star Trek DS9.
To access the files, please use this password: DS9Up

Detailed Workflow: Dropbox - File Deleted
Template to work with StaxRip: Dropbox - File Deleted
Color Regrading LUT (works with Adobe, DaVinci Resolve): Dropbox - File Deleted

New Comparison Images from the pilot episode (DVD on the left, 4K Upscale on the right - 4:3 aspect ratio on both with additional crop on right side): Dropbox - Error

4K Video Samples from the pilot episode (total size about 2,7GB; 8 samples with 1-3 minutes running time each): Dropbox - File Deleted

sorry for my repeating

why is everyone trying to invent the wheel again and again and again?

yes i am a trekker too, but all ds9 and voyager seasons are already available in perfect 4k
every episode around 12-15gb … at least in english and german
if you have the sources (usenet)- dont ask me, thx

stargate and babylon5 are even officially available in 1080p

so why not work on space2063 or alien nation instead?

So you think that with the hundreds of variations in process that everyone’s discussed here… there’s one “perfect” answer and someone found it a couple years ago?

I saw one episode of Voyager from what you’re talking about and thought it looked incredibly over-processed and full of artifacts.

There’s not one answer.

no, thats not what i said.

and i am sure you did not see the upscales i am talking about, since they are NOT a couple years old.

of course there is NOT one answer for every footage.
But once the thing is done … its done.
and any further work is kinda wasted time for me.

you can do with your time what you want.

So which is it? Is there more than one way to do something, or is “when it’s done it’s done”.

If I much prefer my results to those I can get elsewhere, then who are you to say I’m wasting my time?

I think most people are here to discuss the work we are doing. If I didn’t care how it looked, then i’d probably just watch the DVDs. If I thought what I could get without doing any work was better than what I could do myself, then I of course I’d just watch the other thing. Heck, I’m working on Stargate SG1 too and there’s even a Blu ray! But I like my results better.

I’m glad you are happy with the pirated versions you got without doing any work. I think it’s safe to say that everyone else here either isn’t happy with those versions, or doesn’t have access to them.

Could we get back to discussing our work instead of telling people they’re wasting their time?

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pirated versions…
well since i have all the dvds on my shelf, thats not entirely correct.
On the other hand, you have not the right or the permission from paramount to work on their product or alter it in any way. thats a kind of piracy, too … so far for the legal aspects

So you are “working” on Stargate as you are working on ds9 and voyager

we are talking about 348 episodes of startrek
and 10 seasons w. 20 episodes of SG1, so another 200+ episodes of stargate

I would say you are “playing around” with those episodes and find the best way to fit you subjective best result. But dont tell me you are upscaling 548 Episodes to 4K … that would take a year or two… at least

now lets get back

You’ve made your point. There are upscaled versions of all these DVDs out there. We all get it. Most of us probably knew that going into this. I’m here because I’m interested in the processes people are using to do upscales, not to learn about what’s on Usenet and BitTorrent.

FWIW most of my efforts have been in writing software to automate this workflow. I don’t actually care how long it takes, because it requires very little intervention and it’s faster than I can watch the results.

Ok guys, let’s all stay civil and be kind to each other.
Actually, every opinion has a point here.

@mxrevolution: I understand that it might be confusing (perhaps it might even seem pointless) for several people to watch people undertaking projects over and over with the same source material, especially since you seem to have access to or own versions that look good to you.
But everyone has a unique perspective on (visual) quality: With my “test audience” (which consists of almost a dozen people with about 3 different TV sets, 2 computers and a couple of beamers/projecting devices) I get a different response from each person (!!!). One likes it completely smooth, the other wants more grain, another thinks colors should be left untouched, yet another prefers regrading and so on. And then there is the matter of settings on the devices. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations …
So if you like your versions that is fine. If you like to have a look at what I am doing and understand more about how I did it, that’s fine as well. If you think I have wasted time, that is also ok, since I have wasted mine but not felt like I did so and (hopefully) didn’t waste too much of yours by having you follow this topic.

@jamietre: I agree we should focus on discussing workflow, the quality of the results and how VEAI could be implemented to improve video sources in general (or in this case with a specific example that might also be of interest to others).

General note: I am only posting images and short samples, not complete episodes, nor would I ever do so around here. I know piracy is not ok and copyright is a complicated issue. My opinion here: Let’s just share our little examples and work details to inspire others, but let’s not ruin it for everyone by yelling “Piracy” at every topic or work sample - if that were to happen every time around the net, YouTube and Google would have to sue themselves and half the members that upload content. Let’s not be too tight, ok?

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What are the recommended filters for each video issues you mentioned? Or is it purely trial and error?

What if I don’t have the processing power for x265 placebo? What would be the subsitute in that case to preserve the video quality? Should codecs like FFV1, Lagarith and ProRes be used?

Finally, how do I add addtional filters to Starxrip?

There are a lot of questions, and I will be grateful if you could answer all of them.

Well, let me see if I can answer everything :wink:

First of all: Yes, the filters I use have been coming together through extensive trial and error (including the order in which they are applied, for some of them are recommended to be used before another or even can’t function after another - two examples: The Derainbowing filter “DeCross” has to be applied before QTGMC since it won’t work after your source has been deinterlaced; another example: It is better to apply color banding filters close to the end of your script, since other filters can sometimes alter chrominance and luminance, which may influence the effectiveness of color banding filters).

If your machine can’t handle x265 placebo, you can always switch to a codec that is less “work-intense”: x264 offers a few options there, the preset also helps when being adjusted (sometimes the differences are marginal truly, I just wanted to start with the best that was possible on my end).
Lagarith is a lossless codec if I remember correctly, so you would probably have to watch out for the file size, also, back when I considered using it, not every software could handle lossless/uncompressed input, so that was a reason for me to stay away.
ProRes does have some advantages, but I found that some older sources reacted kind of funny in the realm of color representation when being rendered with ProRes, so I guess that would depend on the kind of color matrix or color transfer and how it was handled.
Can’t speak to FFV1, never tried it, sorry.

Adding filters to StaxRip is “relatively” easy: Find the filter (or in this case the dll.-file) online, download it and copy it into the AviSynth directory of the program - it is also possible to do custom scripts, but I have little experience there, I mainly tweaked settings on filters that were already there. Generally speaking, StaxRip will “tell you” if a function is possible or not (usually you will get a red notice at the bottom, something like “Don’t know what Funtion x means” or words to that effect).

As for general advice on filters for issues present in your source video, I can only speak from my personal experience with older DVDs in PAL standard, so these may not apply to NTSC sources - however, I sometimes do work with NTSC, in some cases these filters may work here as well, although you may have to adjust the settings a bit.

Let’s have it short and sweet:

  • Issue: Rainbowing/Cross Color Effects - Filter: “DeCross”
    (I like how this filter works on static as well as moving areas and leaves the luminance alone)
  • Issue: (De-)Interlacing or Handling Hybrid Sources of Progressive and Interlaced - Filter: “QTGMC”
    (One of my favorite and most powerful tools: Basically not just “a” filter, but rather a whole bunch of functions which include Deinterlacing capabilities, repair for progressive input, sharpening, source matching, noise filtering, grain handling, FPS adjustments and interpolation and much more)
  • Issue: Block/Compression Artefacts (often found on DVDs) - Filter: “DeBlock QED”
    (Low Bitrates and Disc Storage limitations often resulted in poorly handled compression which caused block artefacting, this filters lets you set precise values on how strong the Deblocking happens, also you have the opportunity to specify how block edges and block internals are handled, which is very nice, since often the edges are more noticeable than what happens inside the block, so unlike other deblockers, with this one you can influence how much you need to “flatten” the edges without losing internal detail)
  • Issue: Haloing - Filter: “Fine DeHalo”
    (Takes edges into acount and provides contra-sharpening, so you don’t sacrifice important lines, which also happens to be very important if you are working on anime or cartoon sources, since the thickness of the lines there can sometimes be confused for Halos, this filter can handle them pretty well)
  • Issue: Ringing - Filter “HQDeringmod”
    (Smart smoother that only smoothens out areas around egdes, prevents detail loss)
  • Issue: Aliasing - Filter “MAA2”
    (let’s you set specific values on how to handle luminance, chrominance or both - very useful)
  • Issue: Softness/Out of Focus source - Filters: “pSharpen” and “LSFmod”
    (pSharpen is pretty straight forward and avoids oversharpening well; LSFmod is a bit more complex but offers a lot more options, when in doubt, use pSharpen)
  • Issue: Color Banding - Filter “GradFun3”
    (uses dithering to handle banding and works well with sources that were encoded “lossy”)

Hope that helps, but at the end of the day, just speaking from my experiences, there is no “universal answer”.

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I tend to find that progress (as far as I am concerned in preferences) tends to run around luck. That is, that I will constantly try and improve and test and 99% of the times I cannot find a better way to do it. Occasionally, I stumble on an improvement.

This weekend was one of those few times. I am sure I won’t be entirely happy until Borg Perfection is achieved, but this is an extract of my current 1080p progress. Note that I am not personally going to 4K, just to something that looks great on my main TV - and I don’t have the time to upscale all the episodes into 4K. This example below is about 7-8 hours per episode (approx).

I’m upscaling some high and low quality DVDs set for months now. I tried so many models and ended up using AHQ/AMQ 200% with grain amount=2/size=1. The result is very promising. I use 200% because it seems that 200% is the best you can upscale without having artifacts (or at least not too visible, under 0.001%). Then I use Adobe Media Encoder to upscale using Maximum rendering quality + color depth. I would say it’s amazing. But before that, I had to deinterlace using Handbrake with Decomb + EEDI2 Bob + LapSharp Medium Film + 59.94 fps + 20000 kbps bitrate 2 pass with Tune Film and Very slow.
With this setting, the result looks very good (at least for me). Over 200% upscaling with VEAI just destroy everything. So I would say, stick with 200% for all models, and upscale that output to 4K using Adobe is the best answer for me right now. I know people hate grain, but upscaling without grain is not a good idea to start with. Grain 2/1 seems to be the best setting for everything I can say. Not sure if you like it, but you can try mine and let me know if you like or dislike it.