Not an official reply, but I did read somewhere in here that bug fixes are not considered to be an upgrade.
Just got an official reply from support.
“The maintenance releases and fixes (v2.0.0 > v2.0.1) are always included free for all users, even if you do not have an active Upgrade License. To download a major software upgrade (v2.0 > v2.1) an active Upgrade License is required.”
That’s nothing new - we have known that for a while. But since my question was specifically about a bug that I am experiencing, it clarifies the question about bugfixes too.
I have no idea when or how they decide that something is a “major software upgrade” but based on how frequently it changes now, there will be several of those per year for each product. So unless they are going to have active forks of their code for every “major software upgrade” version (2.0, 2.1, 2.2, etc) which is a development nightmare, I don’t expect we will see many free bugfixes after our support agreement is over.
Only time will tell.
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Exactly the point I was making a couple of weeks ago!
Seems impossible to manage a development system like they propose.
With the enormous amount of updates it’s impossible.
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Every time I install the product again I get this strange license where Topaz wants me accept to. They are obviously not aware that:
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agree to a license that can be declined at any time after by either the company or customer by moving on with a different sort of contract without the need of the acceptance of the other site drives the contract ad absurdum
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in germany the highest court often enough explained that we do NOT just buy a copy of a software with some rights of usage. in germany any software a customer buys is like buying any other product: you buy the product and then it is yours and you can do with it what you want.
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I think you should contact support about this …
So, earlier this year, Topaz announced that it will start charging us for support & updates for Gigapixel AI, DeNoise AI, Sharpen AI, and Mask AI after August 31, 2020, or on the anniversary of the product purchase, if purchased after August 31, 2019. I believe the rates announced were $50 annually for one product, or $100 for 2 or more products.
Not exactly happy about that decision, but having spent a career in the software business, I fully understand the reason for Topaz doing this. It is what it is.
But I do have a question … where can I find out more information on how Topaz will implement this pay-for-support model?
Maybe I missed something … an email, a blog post, or a Facebook post. If such an explanation is available somewhere, I’d appreciate being pointed in that direction.
If, however, it has not been published yet, I’d appreciate if Topaz tells us how it is going to work, what our options are, any rules or guidelines, etc. so we can make some decisions.
Since for me, support for 3 of the 4 AI products so affected expires on August 31 (and I am sure I am not the only customer so impacted), I think we’d all appreciate being informed sooner rather than later.
Thanks.
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The explanation is easy: No matter what was told to and accepted by the customer at the day of purchase might be changed by the company at any time in the future no matter to which conditions you have agreed before when you bought the product. 
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I’m not sure what you would like to know regarding the implementation. You’re right in that we have not been told much beyond the initial announcement. The only details that I am aware of are:
First of all, this only applies to Denoise AI, Sharpen AI, Gigapixel AI, and Mask AI. After Aug 31 (it was changed from Aug 15 apparently) or one year from the original purchase date, whichever is later, you will have the option to either pay $49 for a year of support for a single product or $99 for a year of support for all of the effected products. If you decide you do not want to pay, then you can keep running the version you have until you either decide you want a new feature or until it stops working on your computer for some reason. “Minor” enhancements (point-point releases, like 2.1.5 to 2.1.6) will be included whether you have paid for support or not. 2.1 to 2.2 is considered a “major” release and is NOT included if you do not have an active support contract.
Beyond that, I am not aware of any other details. The main problems I have with this are:
- the way they quietly ended the “free updates for life” guarantee and sold similar products with similar names without the guarantee every product they have ever sold came with
- if there is a bug in 2.1.6 that is fixed in 2.2, you won’t get it unless you have an active support contract
- some people purchased at least one of the products while it still had the “free updates” advertised and now that has been removed
I understand why they are doing it. But I am frustrated beyond words at HOW they did it. And that is why, even though I understand the decision, I do not support it in its current form. They have obviously been moving this way for a while and instead of simply removing the “free updates” line, they should have made it very clear upon release that the “new” products were not going to have that feature. When you do something for over 10 years and then change your entire business model, you should explicitly let your customers know in advance (before you start selling products under the new model), not just remove a few words from your marketing and slip that detail in. I own many Topaz products and it never occurred to me when I purchased the last one to make sure it had lifetime updates. That is my fault, but I’m betting that anyone who was an existing Topaz customer made the same assumption.
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I understand your frustration - it is the same as mine. But, it does not really address my question.
Thanks, rmbrother1 … your explanation, as far as it goes, is more or less my understanding as well, based on the initial announcement. It is the decision that Topaz has made, be damned whether we like it or not.
But where I need to gain some understanding, for my own decision-making process is on the mechanics of their new process: how is Topaz going to implement this, and what are all the rules of the new contract they are striking with is? For example …
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How do I purchase a “support year”, if I choose to do so?
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How do I specify which product or products I want covered by the support?
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If I have purchased support for a year, how do I quit? Do I simply not renew at the end of my current support period?
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What are the consequences of not purchasing support right away? Or of delaying purchasing support after my current period expires?
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What if I skip a year? Or two years? Or three years? Are there any terms and conditions that I need to be aware of over time? Do any terms, conditions, and costs vary over time?
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What is Topaz’s commitment to fixing “my” bugs and issues if I am a paying customer? How will they track bug reports and report progress back to me and other customers? How do they plan to prioritize bugs versus new functions? etc … all key questions on how they will perform the task I will be paying them for.
But perhaps the most key question of all: Regardless of what Topaz tells me today, how can I trust them to keep their word over time?
Looking back at a sampling of the customer reactions to last winter’s announcement, the change in their business model has cost Topaz one of the most important elements of a customer relationship that a company can have … its CREDIBILITY: the trust that its customers place on the company, its products, and its practices over time, based on its word. Like an individual’s REPUTATION, it takes a lifetime of careful cultivation to grow and maintain a company’s CREDIBILITY … but it can be lost in less than a second after the company makes what stake holders perceive as a bad decision.
So, those are the things that I really want to understand before I’ll spend any more of my hard-earned money on Topaz products. For the most part, I like most of the ones I currently own, and they still serve me well, as far as I use them, anyway. Maybe I’ll discover bugs later on, and maybe those bugs will be severe enough to cause me to stop using a Topaz product - or purchase an update. But for the most part, it is an innovative and very competitive market space, so I am sure that good/better/best alternatives will present themselves over time.
However, having said that, the complete lack of news from Topaz itself on this matter, that it has apparently made its decision and then virtually buried its head in the sand, is a sign to me that the leadership team has not really thought this decision through. Like many things today, it may have sounded like a good idea at the time, but do they have an implementation plan … and are they ready for the long term unintended consequences of their decision?
So … while I appreciate that other users, like myself, are sharing their ideas on my questions, these are matters that only Topaz can provide the final answer on … communicate to us the missing details regarding exactly how their decision will be implemented. The T’s and C’s of their new contract with us, if you will.
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Some very good questions and points that I’m sure many people would like to hear official answers or comments to, but since it has been 6 months and we haven’t heard anything I’m not going to hold my breath. But honestly, how much faith do you put in the T’s and C’s of this new contract since they apparently are willing to change them whenever they feel like it? I personally have no confidence that they will not do the same with the rest of their products - slap “AI” on the name, give it a new interface, and say it’s a new product and we no longer have support for them either. I don’t know what legal grounds we have regarding existing, reported bugs. Are they legally obliged to fix them at no charge? My guess is that somewhere in the agreement we all click right through there is a clause saying it’s not their problem.
Will enough current customers choose not to buy a support contract (or new products) that they realize it was a mistake to not grandfather in current owners? Will enough buy it that they just don’t care about the “squeaky wheels” and we can just go jump? Will someone file some sort of legal action against them, as has been suggested? And if so, will they win, will the plaintiffs win, and will the company survive in either case? I suspect that we won’t know the answers to some of the questions until September, and many of them won’t be answered for a year or more when they look at their bottom line. The only thing that is certain is that they HAVE lost some goodwill/reputation/credibility with many of their current customers.
I personally do not see myself purchasing more Topaz products or support unless something changes. Their products are good but overpriced and I will be actively looking for alternatives - something I had not been doing. They are also known for having a significant number of bugs, which is not a good reputation to have.
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You can’t 
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Completely agree, guys. I really want this new scheme to fail for the reasons you have articulated above. I will do my part by not purchasing a support subscription or any new products. Perhaps then, Topaz will correct their mistake. Or, sell their IP to a company that can actually make it consistently work without bugs and artifacts when they go down.
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I appreciate that they’ve been busily publishing program changes again these past couple of months and extended the deadline for ending free updates to get a couple of more out the door. It’s a clear indication that they were successful in rehiring the technical staff that they’d lost last year, and are committed to staying viable in this market.
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Now I have reported a second bug that exists in at least Denoise that is “on their roadmap and will be fixed in a future update” so we will never see it now without paying. This one is how the exported files are missing some exif data. I reported this when JPEGtoRAW was first released and at that time Eric said it would be fixed in a future release. They have so many bugs that are common across several of their products and have existed for way too long.
If they want people to pay for support, they had better start fixing bugs!
PS - it has still not been fixed in JPEGtoRAW
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OK, gang, I don’t mean to be dense here, but I really want to try to understand this new policy…
For example, my free upgrades for Sharpen Ai expired on 8/15/2020. Each time I’ve used the product since then, I click “No” to the update prompt. I’m currently running v2.1.3 and I see per the release notes that Sharpen Ai is currently at v2.1.7. After reading through many of the posts in this thread, sitting here on 9/9/2020 I can still update Sharpen Ai because it’s still v2.1? Once it hits v2.2, then I’d need to purchase the upgrade package?
Thank you for any clarity provided.
There have been no upgrades on any product so far that requires a paid update that I know of. All have fallen under some sort of “bug fix”. Clarification of when a version becomes a paid “Upgrade” is needed and can only be determined by Topaz itself. I would hope that it would be indicated by upping the version to another set of numbers, e.g. 3.0 to avoid confusion. I also hope that any Upgrade will contain significant new features to entice a purchase.
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Maintenance releases - where they only change the last digit - are included for everyone at no charge. Major releases - according to their terminology, changing either the first OR second digit - requires an active upgrade license. Most companies change the first digit on a “major” release, but that is not the way Topaz is doing it. So as Alan9940 said, 2.1.3 to 2.1.x is free. 2.1.x to 2.2 will NOT be free unless you have an active upgrade license. Denoise went from 2.2.9 to 2.2.11 and that is still free as well, but 2.3 will require the upgrade license.
And as you said ellemat2 - to the best of my knowledge there have not been any updates to any of the effected products that require an upgrade license at this time.
This information came directly from support, and I can’t find it but I received an email explaining this as well.
Thank you, all, for the clarification.
I havent used topaz in years, where did all the famous painter presets go >? there used to be loads of them in impressions, now there are a handful,very very disapointed, i loved the painting aspect. Now i think i have to look elsewhere.
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