Enhancement Request | Bokeh / Background Soften

[martin-0230 (MartinJ)]

I would very much like a “Bokeh AI”

I use Micro Four Third cameras, and I have 2 stops disadvantage of shallow depth of field. My favorite subjects are birds, and you not always can influence the background accordingly.

What your algorithms really do well is masking - at least a lot better than any auto masking algorithm I know so far. So it should be pretty easy for you to create. And in the beginning, I would not need AI to do the blur - just a nice control pin
But I see a lot of potential to improve some of my pictures with such a tool

[tim.he]

@martin-0230 Thanks for your suggestion! I’m glad you like our masking functionality. A large portion of our users are wildlife and bird photographers so I can see this being useful for many people.

[billray]

With increasing use of Apple and Android phones for serious work (my S22U is the all-but-birds camera) the 5 to 10 times depth of field is even more of an issue. Looking ahead to depth maps in meta data you could simulate lens blur for general use, like landscapes, instead of just a simple background blur.

[BrainBeat]

While I the AI masking is good for me at least it is still a long way behind what Photoshop offers and that is still not perfect so until that level of detection is possible I would wait on offering this feature. I know it would be useful to have I think as Billray said unless there is a depth map it is not going to look great. To offer an accurate depth map I think PhotoAI would also need a good database of how about every lens works which may be not something in their roadmap to make.

A good depth mapper would be a nice to have to help guide the sharpening AI as you might be able to “refocus” the image.

[tim.he]

That makes sense, we don’t want to build a worse version of what Photoshop already offers. If we do release something like this, there will definitely be an AI-enabled differentiator that makes the results better than what you can do manually.

[martin-0230 (MartinJ)]

I would suggest a tool to help making a blurry background - called Bokeh.

Your subject recognition really rocks - and I would love to use that masking for other programs - or even better having a tool inside Photo AI to making a Bokeh, called Bokeh AI. I use MFT camera, and there could be a bit of improvement.

I do have the perfect picture to train the algorithm - green grasshopper before green background

[trwebb781]

Adobe LIghtroom Classic CC has added the feature you are looking for. The lens blur feature helps blur out foreground and background. The depth of field affected is adjustable. The feature also has a bokeh adjustment and several different types of bokeh models to choose from. I have found it a much better function than just isolating the background and using sliders to for fine tune, clarity, denoise, sharpen, and denoise to blur the background. Would be nice if this was placed in Topaz AI.

[andrew3-7835]

Hi,

I don’t know if there’s any existing way of doing this, but it would be great to have a counter-point to the “Sharpen Subject” capabilities, where Topaz would reduce the sharpness of the “background” (i.e. not the subject).

The attached is a good example. The original is not bad, but the rider is somewhat out of focus. “Super focus” has done a great job of sharpening him, and with a bit of editing the general sharpening is restricted to the two participants. However it would be great to be able to mimic throwing the background (i.e. anything not in the subject) further out of focus.

Is there any existing way to get this effect? If not, can it be implemented as a feature request?

Thanks, Andrew

[AND-E]

Hi Andrew.

Besides from being mentioned within the community before here’s one example Bokeh AI

Beautiful background blur, known as ‘Bokeh’ comes from the Japanese word “Boke” and pronounced “Bo-Kay”, in Photography terms is synonymous with Cameras that, have large Sensors and Wide Aperture Lenses.

This is one of those features I can’t see adding value to Photo AI because, there are literally tons of applications or otherwise ranging from Phone Apps to Computer Software claiming to produce natural looking Bokeh automatically using a combination of AI with Depth Maps, and even some free ones.

I’ve probably seen a great deal of them and let me say most of which, if not all fail miserably without needing some kind of after tweaking with sliders, complicated Masking or Layers and Masks to correct.

Although, it would appear I’m against the idea I’m not, honestly I’m not, in fact I use the Lightroom version Lens Blur myself, because, of the sheer control it gives me with a Nondestructive Workflow and live tweaking at anytime plus the ability to use ACR as a Layer which also, incorporates the new Lens Blur which can be used as a Smart Object inside Photoshop so, even more control.

I’m afraid that kind of control would never be possible or available with Photo AI.

Here’s a YouTube video example of the latest and greatest Lightroom Lens Blur offering demonstrated by the wonderful Julieanne Kost

Lens Blur in Lightroom Classic v13.3

In addition, Topaz is all about Image Enhancement, Denoiseing, Sharpening, Upscaling, and now Rescuing our Old Images and Videos.

In light of that, Photo AI is more often than not used as a companion application to Lightroom, Photoshop, and other software so just isn’t designed for that kind of Nondestructive Editing.

On second faults, “never say never” I do hope Topaz considers your suggestion by adding additional Lens Blur functionality but, for the reasons I mentioned above and for this example, if I were to blur the background of an image and leave it at the automatic stage then, save the image without any further cleaning or fixing of the anomalies.

Is that something I would regret in the future especially with family pictures because, all I am able to see are the anomalies then, yes I would.

Regards
Andy

Don’t forget you can also, vote for your own suggestion simply click on the blue box

[andrew3-7835]

Hi
I strongly support this idea. Unfortunately I didn’t find this post before I posted my own version - see Soften Background Option?, which includes a good example of the sort of image which would benefit.
Andrew

[andrew3-7835]

@Andy, I think you have missed the point a bit. I’m not interested in doing this in Photoshop, or Lightroom, or any 3rd party editor. I want to use Topaz PhotoAI as my single “finishing” program for shots I have taken and developed using Capture One as raw processor, and take advantage of Topaz’s excellent subject recognition. The simple concept is “sharpen the subject” (already works) and “blur the not-subject” (suggested optional capability), and I’m sure Topaz could generate a decent model for blur which mimics decent Bokeh.

[AND-E]

I understand what you’re asking but, you’re asking Topaz to put back in this case Blur into an image which really contradicts the purpose for which Topaz are famous for Deconvolution as opposed to Convolution.

[andymagee-52287]

I agree that it would be helpful to use the masking system within the same program to do both the Subject Focus and Defocus the Background.

Here’s an example of doing the Super Focus in PhotoAI and then going back into Photoshop to finish it with a bit of fussing about to get the Subject / Background transitions to match.

Original

PhotoAI

Finished Project

(I was shooting obliquely through a double pane window, and there was a piece of wire mesh behind the squirrel.)

[andrew3-7835]

Thanks. That’s exactly the sort of effect I was thinking of. Conceptually this is easy - a “blur background” action or option on the sharpening actions, set at 0 by default. It could be simply implemented by using a conventional blur filter masked to the background (i.e. non-subject) area, although I suspect Topaz could come up with something cleverer!

[andrew3-7835]

OT: Isn’t it a bit weird that the three contributors so far are all Andy/Andrew?